What it Means to be a Man of God: Theology in Action

Tony Caffey: welcome back to theology in action my name is Tony Caffey and I'm here today with my good friend Bob Butler hey Bob glad you're here

Bob Butler: hey Tony my friend my co-laborer in Christ Jesus my fellow Elder here at verse by verse so

Tony Caffey: yeah Bob we want to talk today about what it means to be a man of God and I'm hoping to just pick your brain on that a little bit we have you know this statement about King David in the Old Testament man after God's Own Heart and I mean that's such a precious beautiful designation and it's a hard day for men we have struggles in the American church and the American milieu for how to follow Christ as a man so I want to start with this you are a discipler that's how I think of you Bob somebody who enjoys meeting with men and one of the books that you've used you've got it on hand to kind of help in that is Gene getz's book The Measure of a Man and we've used gets material for eldering and kind of to sharpen our skills as elders but you've used that in A discipleship context and I guess I want to just take the title of that book and turn it over into a question the measure of a man what is the measure of a man Bob give me maybe just a quick synopsis of the thesis of that book and also what you're trying to accomplish with that book when you you use it with men you're discipline

Bob Butler: thanks Tony thanks for having me the measure of a man is um is a book that's near and dear to my heart because it really represents a lot of the characteristics that I think the Bible calls for us to be about as men as men of God and of course the um the model is Jesus Christ um and we think about Christ we think about lots of different things certainly exhibiting all kinds of fruits of the spirit as you walk on this Earth love joy peace kindness goodness and what have you and what what's great about Gene's work that I really like is he takes portions of scripture primarily from Paul in his letters to Timothy and Titus and has looked at the qualifications of men to be elders and deacons and really as he's thought about and reflected upon said you know these are aspirational qualities for all men

Tony Caffey: yep

Bob Butler: and as and what what it does for men like that are interested in learning to be more like Christ it really provides a great road map of areas that we should focus on as men in our different roles whether we're you know single married we have a job we're a student but it at all aspects All Phases in our life These are qualities that are enduring that we should continue to try to mature and and to me it's it's a nice comprehensive list that gives us a a path forward and that we can measure over time to see where our progress is

Tony Caffey: so let me ask you this question you mentioned First Timothy 3 I guess in the book and you know we see these qualifications for elders you and I have worked through that with evaluating even Elders is every man a leader in some way

Bob Butler: I think as you we reflect upon the scriptures uh every man takes on the role of some type of leader um and in in with regards to a household with regards to um being inserted into roles in life to help individuals be guided in a direction whether it's with a woman it could be a roommate at College it could be um a son or a daughter and so I do believe that we are all placed in roles of leadership Jesus of course demonstrated that through his leadership over the apostles and the disciples while he walked this Earth and I think there the Bible's replete with examples of where men have been called appointed to lead

Tony Caffey: I appreciate that because you know we we can even as I'm teaching First Timothy 3 or Titus 1 we we can Silo that to like all right you guys are really important listen to me as I talk about these things but it shouldn't be that way these are I appreciated what you said about aspirational qualities for all of us we all should be trying to demonstrate this kind of character and the the ones that do with Excellence are the ones that we ask to serve uh as Leaders over our church so let's maybe drill down a little bit on uh men and the role of uh I guess becoming a man and you know growing as a man it's I mentioned this already but it's it's a tough day to be a man in this culture we have a lot of broken families we have um Perpetual adolescence with some who struggle to transition to manhood um the culture by and large can can label you know men who seek leadership or show aggressiveness you know toxic masculinity and uh so you have some experiences that I want to draw up on you're in the military you're a retired Colonel and the U.S Air Force thanks for serving our country in that way how did that help you mature as a man uh as you were how old were you when you joined the Air Force

Bob Butler: 21

Tony Caffey: 21 okay how did that help you in terms of developing uh as a man and then maybe what did it lack what did you still need even beyond the military

Bob Butler: well let me step back to just before joining the military because that provides a pretty good Baseline I grew up in a in a family where you know my dad taught me the the value of hard work and um we we as a family uh were involved in family activities and I was encouraged to get involved in teamwork activities that actually helped me when I joined the military the military is not about an individual it's about teams of teams working together uh the other thing that the military helps you with is it thrusts you into environments where you are encouraged to take initiative and in and in by doing so you're you're encouraged to take risk and so you learn early on how to manage risk which is I think really important in in today's environment the other thing that comes to play and it's in our core values in the Air Force the Air Force core values are Integrity first service before self and excellence in all you do those are the three core values um they sound a bit familiar with some of the things in scripture and we'll talk about that in a moment

Tony Caffey: yeah it does

Bob Butler: so um as you move in the military one of the things that you begin to see is you know you may be part of a flight which is the one of the smallest units within the Air Force or a squadron in the next level up or the group but you're always looking to serve something above you or next to you um I think um service before self is really really emphasized throughout your career in different assignments in different ways um the other thing that I found is I moved at one time eight times in about 11 years the ability to adapt uh is an important aspect of of what the military does and in the end for me after 26 years of service um I was able to have the opportunity to lead large organizations and in those roles you begin to distill all those life experiences part of what I eventually came to was my own command philosophy built on scripture but also built on my life experiences and kind of where my head was it's it's I kind of captured in this across the call Life loyalty Integrity Fitness and enthusiasm loyalty really reflected this concept of um being loyal not only up the chain of command but down the chain of command your word is really important Integrity especially in light of some of the things that you've mentioned Tony you know we've we're bombarded with different things in this world do the right thing I I lived in a time period in the military from the late 70s through 2005 where there were a lot of political forces and so I always would tell people don't do the politically correct thing just do the right thing and let me know I'll have your your back right the third the third area of Fitness most folks in the military can really relate to physical fitness it was a big part of what we had to do but I rounded that out I was an intelligence officer so I talked about intellectual Fitness we used to kid around don't read just the sports section of the newspaper read the international and national news right and at the same time I always emphasized a spiritual Fitness a belief in God as part of the core of what you needed to be about because when everything else seems to be drifting you go back to the Core and then finally uh this idea of enthusiasm step into things with um looking at the glasses half full as opposed to half empty um because I found too many people getting to a point where they would be discouraged and again we rally around each other to support each other and so the acrostic life really captured things now where did where did um I not sense you know where I am today and a lot of that is um in the spiritual Dimension there were individuals that were Christian Brothers uh that I loved and we developed um really strong relationships but the uh the ethos of a church Community or Christian Community of brothers and sisters um that was not necessarily the ethos of what I would call The Big Air Force um and I think it's more challenging even today um so yeah for young men I sense that they have a desire and I and I think this is part of the way that God has wired them to be a part of something bigger than themselves and they they are made to to to go and to conquer and to lead and and certainly that involves a family to to lead and you know being a part of the Air Force I would think for a lot of young men it's just okay I'm I'm a part of something important and significant I'm defending my country was that a draw for you when you were a young man it was my dad served in uh both the police department and the fire department and uh I saw something in him he didn't have to talk about it a lot I just saw what he was doing and it was this idea of civil service and I didn't know at the time you know when I was a certainly a young teenager of where I was going but I did know that where I was in school I was enjoying what I was studying but it wasn't translating very well to a career I was studying business and applied math and I knew I needed to do something different and really God God created the opportunity as I saw some ROTC folks marching around on campus at St John's University where all of a sudden my my my vision went in a different direction

Tony Caffey: so talk to me as a military man our country has an amazing uh Heritage of men who have served in the armed forces and also had a you know commitment to the Lord and uh you're part of that Heritage how do you find that balance between I'm serving my country I have these commitments but also my highest commitment above everything is ultimately the Lord

Bob Butler: it's a it's a tough question I will tell you that I have not um I have not walked well throughout my life and in getting that right balance um my sense is most a lot of a lot of men and women struggle as they come into the military to give it its all and um I can see it in um in situations with broken relationships and broken uh families where it's it's not gone that balance hasn't been there um I think as I've looked back uh my sense is guys tend to be very active right um it's challenging I think to be still and to reflect upon those priorities which are the right priorities right God first then your spouse and everything else um and um we lose sight of it certainly I I think when I was you know a young Lieutenant I was struggling in that space I was really going after you know the next assignment the next promotion

Bob Butler: um and it took you know God's intervention in my life to really change me and through through salvation and then through discipling and that's why I'm such a big believer on discipling I began to change I began to get those priorities Back in Balance and and it's a lifelong Pursuit you know every day you're re you know you're constantly resetting and that's part of the joy of it too we're still growing disciples and uh the elders in our Church Pastor Tony included are growing Disciples of Christ Jesus right

Tony Caffey: right that is exciting it is it is

Bob Butler: to be able to tell others even as you're discipling them hey you know I'm not the standard Jesus is the standard come along with me as we pursue this together

Tony Caffey: so Bob your marriage you've been married for how many years to Annie

Bob Butler: yeah 39 coming up on 40 next year

Tony Caffey: praise the Lord six kids how many grandkids or now

Bob Butler: let's see eight grandchildren

Tony Caffey: eight grandkids you are uh looking at life now and seeing the fruit of a lot of work and the efforts that you put forth and enjoying the joy of being a grandkid you can go and see them and and then when they get they act up you can send them to their parents right and tell them a story about how you disciplined them when they were little right I had this incident with my mom once she would come talk to my son and every time I tried to discipline my son my mom would interject oh you should have seen Tony when he was your age Alistar like Mom come on I'm trying to discipline him here it's not a time for you to tell him like what I did as a kid but you've had those experiences and let me ask you because we've got you know age demographics who are 20 somethings 30-somethings watching this right now this is a horrible hypothetical to throw on you but I'm gonna throw it on you anyway if you could go back if you could you know maybe even communicate to a 20-something right now and vicariously try to steer them a certain direction what would you do differently or what would you encourage them to prioritize

Bob Butler: it's hard for a 20 year old man I saw it in my own life you really want to slow down and enjoy the moments um I think when I look back on my 20s I was so focused on well we can do this and we can do that we can do this and we can do that

Bob Butler: um that um there was time that could have been spent on more relationship building um so I think that's an important aspect is to consciously intentionally uh Slow Down slow down um the world may be spinning around you but you could you know as a father as a husband um you know you're guiding the family you need to to be still um the other thing I think about is um and I I learned this along the way and I'm still learning it is the most important thing a father can do is to show his love for his wife by far by far um when you be that meant a lot to your kids as they were growing up seeing you do that

Bob Butler: well I I I think I was growing I think I'm still growing in that process um you know my my sense is um both boys and girls get their affirmation from their parents and when they see their parents together so when both Annie and I came to know the Lord and we prayed together and the kids saw that that that's important uh that's really really important um uh the the other thing is don't shy away from the heart stuff right um and you know I disagree on on different things and so um it's good to be for children to see how how do you resolve those things how do you work through those issues and I guess the final point which I you know and I see this now with my kids uh working with their with our grandkids is spend time uh reading to them um talking with them stories um you know devotions were an important part of us growing up in the family so I think those would be things that I would emphasize as opposed to trying to you know get through a bucket list

Tony Caffey: I heard Tommy Nelson say once that the best thing that you can do for your kids as a spouse is to love that kid's daddy or love that kid's mama that that creates a sense of uh calm and peace in the home that benefits them greatly and and I've found that to be true seeing that it's not always easy this is conflicts happened it's part of marriage right and you work through it and some of that also involves telling your kids mom and dad disagree about this we're gonna go work this out so right stay tuned

Bob Butler: right right right

Tony Caffey: right

Bob Butler: yeah right especially for us you know we moved a lot in the military we still move we were moving a lot through

Bob Butler: different kinds of work assignments whenever there's transition that's that's an opportunity for uh for a blessing but it's also an opportunity for for the devil to lay out a scheme and so that's when we were we began to sense that that's when we were most vulnerable and we would spend more time just I we tried to spend more time slowing it down and and so let me add another complicating Factor there's work right which for you involved military uh other people it could be working for you know the airport or Boeing or some other Corporation um there's family and then there's church and being committed to church is another time commitment it's another uh taxing the responsibility you've served as an elder before that you've served in different ways in different churches so yeah how do you manage that and add that to the equation

Bob Butler: yeah I think uh for me it's again been a journey my sense is uh um once you know your gifts and your life experiences um you sense a conviction from the Holy Spirit and direction from the Holy Spirit as to how you can be best used and that's the first step and then once you see an opportunity match to that sense then it's important to at least for us it was important for us to share together Annie and I to kind of just

Tony Caffey: I mean serving in the church together

Bob Butler: well I'm actually talking about it okay here's here's the commitment you know here's here's what I what I sense God is calling us calling me to do or us to do um so we started with young marrieds and then we moved to children in different different aspects of children's programs and we enjoy that we've and we found in that Ministry that you know I could teach and kind of guide and lead and Annie was phenomenal at serving and she could sense things that I could not sense so we found in Teaching Ministry especially with kids that we worked very very well together there are other times where you know Annie's gifts in service and really encouragement play much much more strongly and say welcome Ministry or something like that and um it's not to say I couldn't do that but my sense has been over time that God's using gifts that I have in administration and and planning along with some of the other things that he's shown me to do other things

Bob Butler: so there you know it is a time commitment and it's really I think then helping um your spouse to see where God is leading and guiding and as we pray about it normally we have a pretty strong joint conviction about what to do um when now when there's a situation like when the calling of an elder um I was I was surprised and we prayed about it um and he felt a sense of confirmation before I did but as we prayed through it I too felt the sense of affirmation and then then once you sense you know certainly on both sides of the equation this conviction then it's easy it's it I won't say it's easy it's easier you step into it and you recognize that this is this is what God wants you to do I mean this is the manifestation of what we say to love the Lord your God with all your heart your mind your strength and soul and love your neighbor

Tony Caffey: so yeah our mutual friend Mark Fortney he would he said uh you can't love Jesus and hate his bride you know that's right that's um a contradiction and and if you are verbally abusive towards the bride and and uh deny her and reject her that doesn't make the groom very happy with you so you better be careful

Bob Butler: yeah just like our Brides you know we're uh possessive and and um you know we're defensive on their behalf uh let me ask you this Bob so we talked about the 20-something stage of life and I like to think of life in quarters like a football game you got first quarter you know maybe taking you to age 20 and then you start the second quarter of Life which typically involves you know establishing your career you know wife kids and then third quarter I don't know that starts as your kids can start to move out of the house or maybe kind of teenage years so 40 something I feel like I'm in my third quarter and then there's the fourth quarter there's the empty nest there's maybe retirement or you're winding down your career um so what you've already talked I think to the second quarter third quarter generation you're entering a stage of Life uh fourth quarter is it fair to say fourth quarters are important

Bob Butler: yep

Tony Caffey: Tom Brady won a game yesterday in the fourth quarter so what uh you know what would you say in terms of fourth quarter what is it what are you trying to do in this stage of life and

Tony Caffey: maybe in terms of exhortation how do you how do you finish well how do you all the way to the end serving Christ loving the Lord how are you processing that right now and give some advice to those people listening right now on that

Bob Butler: that's a great question uh you know my sense is God has given us time on this Earth to learn a lot and um as life has passed by I especially in the last few years have had a much greater sense of what I think God is asking me to do and how the life experiences fit together at the same time as you enter the fourth quarter uh 15 minutes can go fast right right so there's a sense of urgency and so for me it's not doing more of the same it's doing what makes sense to be prepared for my eternal home and so things that I used to be doing in the military were in Washington DC those are life experiences that are helpful as I think about Kingdom building but that's not where I want to be and so there's a calling in in my mind to do something different it's built around discipling it's built around evangelism although I don't sense my my gift is being a missionary out on the field but I but I do sense that God is putting people in my life that are non-believers and I've got to tell them I've just got to tell them about the one mediator the one who paid it all for us and leave it up to God right so it's it's not winning the race Paul never said about winning the race you've got to finish

Tony Caffey: yeah yeah finish the race

Bob Butler: right and so retirement is more transition um I don't think I don't think retirement's a good word for this stage of life but it is being alert it is being prepared and there's much more greater recognition especially as you feel the ailments in your knees and stuff that you know today could be the day could be next week so with a sense of of real urgency let's get on with it

Tony Caffey: one of my favorite quotes Greg Popovich yeah the great coach of the San Antonio Spurs 70 years old coaching the team still he said retirement is overrated and he's still doing what he does uh you know so let me ask about that it's really really important is to stay active

Bob Butler: yeah

Tony Caffey: um and and you know we don't have to you don't have to go into full-time Ministry but um there is a lot to be said about physically and ment

Bob Butler: ally being active because that does help you in terms of staying engaged and keeping your focus

Tony Caffey: yes and and that's not uh to speak against planning for retirement in terms of financially you know putting yourself in a place where you don't have to collect a paycheck later in life you can be more freed up to do certain things right that's actually good stewardship and wisdom in terms of preparing for the future but maybe drill down on some specifics for people who don't know you sold your house right you bought an RV right what you know what does what is Bob and what are Bob and Annie Butler doing right now in terms of capturing the moment to serve the Lord

Bob Butler: yeah so this has been evolving um Annie and I have been praying Annie's had a sense of wanting to get a recreational vehicle for some time I've I've not really uh been where where I've wanted to make that decision right away but as we got to um I guess it was um yeah about about two years ago we started reflecting upon you know where God would want us to serve long term we love the church um and so as we were going through this period of transition and he said could we try the RV just see what it's like and I said okay let's give it a go so we rented an RV in 2021 and we went out to California and um joined it um it wasn't what I thought it was going to be what I wasn't aware of is when we went out to different RV camps and primarily we went to military bases we found that there was a community of both retired and active duty folks in these RV camps that had time and some well many of them were in positions where they not only had time but I think with uh some encouragement would be willing to continue the journey right and to be engaged in things on the base at the same time I saw through working with sparrow songs here locally what was going on on the basis with regards to Ministry budgets were being cut there's been a gradual movement away from Christian uh activities and so people have been looking for other options and other alternatives so as we came back off this RV trip all of this was kind of bouncing around in my mind we had made the decision Tony to to call you as a as the senior pastor and I felt a sense of okay Lord what next and as we prayed about it uh turning into 22 um Annie and I made the decision well let's let's just step in faith and so we initially were going to buy the buy a used RV that didn't materialize right away and so we we switched gears and said well if this is meant to be let's sell the house and just see where things go we put the house on the market and within a couple of weeks it was sold San Antonio can't beat it huh and so uh then we became nomadic uh and to a certain extent we're still nomadic right now but we were able to after a long search find an RV and now we see things beginning to materialize with a couple of bases willing to have us and to start next year plugging into different Ministry activities on the basis so evangelism discipleship trying to set up kids programs small groups they all have they have tremendous needs at all these bases and then through through uh that you know how God brings networks together um a friend where we have an opportunity now to talk to the Air Force chief of chaplains about potentially scaling this this type of activity and so um we're just excited to see where God's going to lead in this whole space I do see connections with what we've been doing with verse by verse um I'm a big believer in expository teaching and Bible learning and also with uh with what I see with sparrow songs Sparrow is already tied into military Ministry so um yeah that's where we're going

Tony Caffey: very good Bob thanks for that one final question

Bob Butler: sure

Tony Caffey: how good was your jump shot back in the day was it like uh eight out of ten nine out of ten

Bob Butler: they call me the bomber

Tony Caffey: the bomber the bomber oh that's a great Air Force designation look at that so I guess that was yeah that was prophetic uh because um I couldn't penetrate the key too well as a point guard but I could I could uh come up to the key or go to the outside and I could I could I could hit the jump shot pretty well

Bob Butler: okay

Tony Caffey: three pointers

Bob Butler: or no uh back in those days you didn't have three pointers but yeah I guess I could hit occasionally I could hit a three-point

Tony Caffey: the bomber okay Bob the bomber Butler that is brilliant I might have to use that at some point very good Bob thanks for joining us thanks for sharing some of your experiences thanks for serving as an elder with me at verse by verse it's been a joy serving in that capacity so well thanks for the opportunity to be on this interview and and to serve alongside of you Tony you've been a a great pastor and I look forward to doing more with verse by verse Fellowship

Tony Caffey: very good thanks Bob that's it for theology in action for more videos like this and for more content from our church live stream Etc you can go to vbvf.org that's messiahbible.org we'll see you next time