Teaching Children the Bible: Theology in Action

Tony Caffey: welcome back to theology in action my name is Tony Caffey I'm the senior pastor of verse by verse fellowship and I'm here today with our children's ministry director Shay Mounts how's it going today Shay pretty well thank you glad you're here we're here to talk about children's ministry which I know you're passionate about you have two boys of your own yes and you lead and minister to kids here adverse by verse so let me uh let me start things off here not to not to get you in a bad mood or anything but let me ask a pressing question here isn't children's ministry Shay just babysitting for families at church how would you respond to somebody who said that?

Shay Mounts: um unfortunately at a lot of churches that is what they have is effectively Child Care um but here at verse by verse we think it's really really important to make sure that we're discipling our kids alongside their parents and not just keeping them out of big church so we do have an aspect of child care in that the kids are in a safe environment where they're being looked after and loved on while their parents are able to go to church and get fed themselves um but it's so much more than that we we have very intentional lessons that we go through every week that actually walk the kids through every three years from Genesis to Revelation all of the high points um and and in every single lesson there's something called the Christ connection which explains to them how that story from history coincides with the story of Christ whether it's Old Testament or new testament whatever passage you're in

Tony Caffey: yes absolutely there's so many types and shadows of Christ even in the Old Testament and every single story in some way shape or form applies to the story of Christ bringing us salvation and we have Nursery as well and that's what you might call a non-teaching environment here but then when do we start the teaching the discipling for kids at first by verse?

Shay Mounts: technically we actually do even have a lesson for the infants so we have a um three month to 23 months so it's cradled to the Grave here it really is now that lesson is not in depth a paragraph a very short paragraph about the story and some little activity that has to do with you know playing with Jingle Bells or something like that just to sort of start talking the talk to them and speaking scripture over them but where we really start to dive in with a real lesson is in our two and three year old class our toddler room is where we have our our youngest version of the true lesson where we reiterate the story in several different ways and we do we do activities that reinforce that as well

Tony Caffey: yeah so full disclosure I got saved when I was a young person I was five six I can't remember the exact age but I at that stage of life understood the gospel knew what Jesus did for me and that's why discipleship is so important wouldn't you say for our kids is that it's not like we're waiting for them to be real people then we can minister to them right they are real people made in the image of God and able to be discipled?

Shay Mounts: yeah absolutely and you know discipleship is a process that um that from the beginning to the end is it's it's us learning to to follow Christ learning to be more christ-like learning how to um become people who are effective ministers um of the word and maturing in our beliefs and in our understanding and and that's exactly what kids are doing anyway it's just that they're they're doing it with their whole life not just their spiritual life they're they're every minute they're learning and every minute they're maturing and turning into the adults that they're eventually going to be from a psychological standpoint I've I've heard that by about age seven you're pretty set in your ways and by the time you hit um 13 you're you are who you are and to change that is going to take a lot of work so why not start early teaching them from a Biblical perspective how to be effective ministers for the gospel and teaching them the truth of the Bible from infancy I've also heard stats in terms of salvations the high percentage of people that actually come to Christ as a young person versus later in life we always celebrate you know people in their 20s and their 30s who come to Christ that's so exciting I love baptizing uh that age group when they get saved um but in no way do I want to downplay how significant it is when they you know like me five six-year-old gets saved and is starting that Journey with the Lord so how do they grow as a disciple so let's say five six seven eight nine years old we have a new believer in your children's ministry and journey kids what what does discipleship look like for someone that age?

Shay Mounts: um well it starts of course with starting to teach them scripture um it you're never too young to start to dig into scripture and to learn more about it and learn like I said how Christ connects to even the Old Testament stories um really giving them a firm foundation in what we believe and why we believe it um there's also it's you're also never too young to start learning um the more I guess temporal reasons for our faith there's so much in science that is empirical data that backs up what the Bible says and a lot of people don't realize that and I think that starting as they are younger and learning in school about the hypothesis of evolution and things like that they they need to know the other side of those arguments as well as they're being inundated with the world

Tony Caffey: yeah and that's something I know your parents I know they imparted to you and you're trying to do that with your uh your boys so maybe just for a parent who's watching right now what what are some ways in addition coming alongside of church and and what the church is doing how how do parents disciple their children let me let me give you a statement tell me why this is wrong oh you know my son or daughter they'll just figure things out whenever they reach a certain age I'm just letting them do whatever on their own why is that not consistent with are even our our Christian Heritage?

Shay Mounts: well the Bible specifically says that it's our job as parents to train them up in the way that they should go and so that is completely ignoring what scripture tells us to do it's um it's a charge that parents have been given to disciple their children whenever we ignore that we are putting our children in danger they need to know the reasons and they need to know them from the people that they can trust the most parents

Tony Caffey: yes and we as the church can come alongside parents and help them in that Venture I remember when Aleister was little my son our favorite uh time of the day I full disclosure it wasn't always great but what we tried to do every night was spend time with him um we would sing songs you know about the Lord uh the ones that he remembered we would read some portion of a children's Bible or as he got a little older a section of scripture and we would pray and we just kind of instilled that as a habit we spend time with God before we go to bed and you know sometimes he would just kind of pay attention so he would drag out you know bedtime hours or you wouldn't have to go to sleep sometimes he misbehaved and it became a disaster but just the consistency of that was valuable for him was valuable for us as a family how would you encourage parents maybe on a on a daily basis even to to work that uh that work of discipleship with their kids?

Shay Mounts: I think that um that different families have different structures um or lack thereof in some cases Sometimes some days that's definitely us um and so it looks different for every family I know one family who's very very consistent about having that intentional time of worship in scripture with their children sitting around the kitchen table every single day and that's amazing if you can do that I I can't I I am entirely too busy and honestly in so many ways undisciplined that that doesn't work for us but what we do in our family um is we have a consistent dialogue a constant dialogue about scripture and about how life is um is important um all the important things about life and scripture and how they apply to one another my kids are always welcome to ask me any questions that they want and I will give them the answers and if I don't know the answer I'll admit that to them and we'll look it up together or we'll ask Daddy um or we'll bring it to you or you know somebody who who has the answers I've had my four-year-old a few months ago after losing his grandma um ask me mom how do we know how to get to heaven and you know I reiterated the gospel to him and everything he said no but how do we know how to get there like how do we get to the new Heaven and the new Earth mom and so um I I questioned him further and it came down to he literally is was asking directions like a map and so um so we talked about how Jesus is the map and he's gonna he's gonna show us how to get there and he's the only one that knows how to get there and so that's why we need him um and that's that's not a typical question for a four-year-old but it's an example of the kind of conversations that we have consistently enough that a four-year-old thought to ask that

Tony Caffey: yeah they ask you great questions don't they a lot of um basic questions that you have to revisit as an adult things that you maybe thought you settled and knew and then you're like wait how do I articulate this at a four-year-old five-year-old level yeah let's talk about the church a little bit in Ministry so you have wonderful volunteers who serve alongside of you here at verse by verse and they're committed um I get the privilege before I go to preach I'll walk through the children's ministry and I'll see you know this uh classroom and that classroom and these volunteers and we have all different age ranges young people those who are empty nesters grandparents who are serving in our children's ministry what's the why is that important what's the value of that having a significant investment of volunteers serving the children at church?

Shay Mounts: um well in my opinion the biggest factor is the effect that they have directly on the kids um so often we get to see it click in kids heads you know the gospel just makes sense to them we get to we get to lead them in the Prayer of Salvation we get to see them baptized things like that we get to watch them actually grow spiritually as we disciple them and as their parents disciple them um they grow so fast oh my goodness they just they move at the speed of light it seems like in terms of their understanding yeah absolutely um and so it's such a blessing to be able to see that happen is also about the effect we have on um on their their lives here on Earth as well at some point no matter how awesome your parents are no matter how great your kids are at some point kids stop taking their parents word for it and a lot of times having another adult speak the same thing into their lives is what makes them go oh maybe it's true and um frustrating your kid comes home and says this is brilliant and like yeah I know I've been telling you that for months what have I been saying and um and so I mean having having volunteers at church who are on the same page with you doctrinally and um and are gonna point your kids to scripture and point them to the cross and um and and probably give them the same advice you're going to be giving them is so invaluable for parents and for the kids as well

Tony Caffey: yeah I think back to memories I had as a kid and I grew up in church I know not everybody has that experience but I just remember teachers I remember volunteers I remember my Sunday school teachers I remember my VBS teachers the things that they imparted to me I even remember some of the some of the erroneous things that they sometimes taught that I had to unlearn later but that was more the rare occurrence um I remember my pastor uh when I was I think I was 11. he he was an older man late 60s he uh came in and taught one of my Sunday School classes once and he wore a bow tie that was lit up that had like Christmas lights and they were lighting up and he came in and he taught and I only knew him as like this Gruff old Pastor who you know nobody he only ministered to my parents but him doing that coming and ministering to me made an impact on me oh like this is my pastor like he's fun of course you know then he started teaching and he was lecturing us but that was good too but maybe less memorable anyways yeah I mean that's that's such an awesome opportunity for us to be invested in the future of uh of Christianity of the church you know my favorite one of my favorite moments with Jesus is you know the children coming to him and this is like the great you know biblical justification for children's ministry right and the disciples are like shoe kids you know Jesus has more important things to do than piddle around with a bunch of kids and you know Jesus rebuked them and he the rebuke went more than just was more than just you know let the kids come to me because I want to teach them it the rebuke was you disciples need to be more like them you need to have that childlike Faith um you need to have um you know less less uh dependence on yourself even which I mean that's the thing about kids is uh we do make the mistake so I love that story I love that about Jesus but I do I didn't need to point this out it's not that kids are inherently innocent right right have you found that to be true yet

Shay Mounts: yes I have I have Boys on top of it so it's extra apparent so there's sinful they have a sin nature but but there is in terms of coming to Faith that kind of you know there is a reason that Jesus describes Faith as a childlike Faith an absolute dependence uh a turning away from from self and and putting uh putting your confidence in something else and I just love that I love that rebuke Jesus gave your disciples need to be more like them and while you're at it don't shoo them away when they want to come to me yeah yep good so children's ministry here at verse by verse Fellowship what I mean if somebody's kind of on the fence like I want to serve it you know but then I want to be serving in this capacity or this other thing why why would you encourage somebody to serve in children's ministry?

Tony Caffey: um well first of all like I said before it's such a privilege to be able to see those moments in kids lives where things click and um and to to watch them be discipled and watch them grow so eagerly and so quickly and um and just really see their lives changed um there's there's such a value in um and growing up knowing the Lord and being spared from all of the things all the mistakes that you could make um it's not a celebrated testimony necessarily we always like you were saying with the older people who come to Christ we always celebrate their testimonies especially if it's something like I came out of you know homosexuality I came out of drugs I came out of this or that um and and those are amazing testimonies and you know the Bible says to him who is forgiven much they they are they love much but there's also such incredible value in the lack of the dramatic testimony I got saved when I was three and um and that's not to say I lived a perfect life I made my mistakes but there were so many times that I would have maybe gone off the deep end and the Lord literally foiled my plans and I was very upset about it at the time but looking back it's it's so powerful that I was spared so much and we can be a part of children growing up knowing the Lord and not having to go through those traumatic things in many cases or be there for them when they do make those mistakes you know as they grow up you can you can continue that relationship with them through their adulthood my mom is is a great example of that she's been she worked with youth back in the 90s and a lot of those kids from back then are in their 40s now and have their own kids and she's still in contact with a lot of them there's also the aspect of learning from the kids I mean so often we can child life yeah face childlike nature yes absolutely and and it never ceases to amaze me how often I learn something from the kids you know I if they freak out about something little and are just absolutely think it's the worst thing that could possibly happen to them and from my perspective as an adult I'm like you didn't get a lollipop today you know no big deal but that's exactly how God sees us we freak out about stuff all the time and he's like it's okay it's you didn't get a lollipop like it's gonna be all right and um you know so that's an example of something I've learned from from the kids myself and and even with our uh with our curriculum I I had to learn a lot of the stories from the Old Testament that I never learned growing up because here specifically we have such a great in-depth curriculum that um I mean my three-year-old was coming home telling me stories about people that I'd never heard of and so I had to go study the Bible to catch up with them you know come on Mom get up to speed there you go good well let me ask you a question because this is and I'll finish up with this this is maybe directly towards Christian kids or kids growing up in a Christian home um you know Paul trips about Paul Tripp talks about the dangers of moralizing our children versus gospelizing them and I think that can be a real danger where we you know run the risk of raising little Pharisees uh who are all about you know doing good or doing right and and there's can be a tendency towards a works-based righteousness even though we say all the right things in terms of theology we still say but you need to be a good little boy and girl and that's really how you find favor in the Lord um how do you avoid that with the curriculum with your teaching and even as a parent with your boys how do we move past moralizing to gospelizing them

Shay Mounts: I guess the best way that I can think to do that and what we've been striving to do in children's ministry is to again not only give them and not only teach them what we believe but why we believe it um teach them really the you know the foundations of the faith and make sure that they know that that their sins are forgiven that Christ came to fulfills Allah he came to to pay for every sin that they will ever commit and take their consequences for them so that they are paid up paid in full they get to go to heaven as long as they you know they believe in Jesus that they believe that he is God's son and um and that he rose from the dead and they speak that um yeah and and then I also try to just make sure that they know that the that the works that we do that the good things that we do are because we love Jesus and we want to make him happy we want we want to please God we want to serve him we want to teach other people about him and show them what he's like not that we're trying to earn our way to heaven

Tony Caffey: yes absolutely it's an outworking of the Gospel not a way to earn favor with the Lord we're and you know that's not just a kid's thing that something as adults we need to be reminded of consistently so Jay thanks for this time thanks for serving our kids so keep up the good work at verse by verse if you want to learn more about our church you can go to vbvf.org and watch our live streams and then also watch more Theology and action podcasts like this one so until next time this is uh the end of this podcast for theology next.